Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor 
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
|
Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 27, 2014 9:49:47 GMT -6
In your case and Raph's, he was an enemy for a very different reason as I explained. You fail to see how it looks from my side of things. Yes he is hiding amongst you know and I hope things work out fine. I won't attack him now simply because of the charter. I am a man of my word. As for Sargas, as far as I can tell from post on here the topic of Jake is still under discussion at EoS. He might be willing to let things go though. But I can't. If Jake ever leaves your corp you can rest assure I will him if I find him. If he has any intelligence he will remain in your corp where he is safe. Though honestly I think you are a bit of a fool for trusting him. Let me ask you something. Would you accept Dadds into your corp if he suddenly claimed he wanted to change his ways and was tired of the fighting?
|
|
|
|
Post by JoolzVern on Oct 27, 2014 12:06:49 GMT -6
He should have thought about that before he supported a totalitarian like Dadds who goes to war when somebody exercises free speech. As for Sargas and Raph they were probably never were as targeted or insulted by IMG so that's why they can let it go.
Rostin, the UC was meant to showcase the HONORABLE corporations and you have shown me that you are not one of them as a simple "I'm tired of being attacked" absolves him of wrong doing in your eyes. You and Jake taking advantage of the UC charter to help a miscreant get out of what he has coming to him, is not appreciated.
I cannot and will not stand by such despicable people as Jake, Dadds, and those who ally with them. If that is what the remaining members of the UC wish to do, then you do so without ITO. SPQNR is no better or trustworthy than Raph or Dadds or some rapist now and is a disgrace to the UC and all it was meant to stand for.
While ITO will continue to uphold our values and policies of non-aggression etc. outlined in the UC charter, I hereby dissolve our involvement with the UC (and our NAP with SPQNR in the event we decide to hunt Jake) until such time as SPQNR is no longer part of it, or restores their honor somehow. I suggest seppuku.
|
|
Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
|
Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 27, 2014 12:14:04 GMT -6
Joolz come on now. As much as I hate this too, it isn't worth throwing out the charter or leaving the UC. I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thing is exactly what Dadds or Jake wants. I wouldn't be surprised if they predicted some of us wouldn't stand for it and would leave. They likely want to cause problems. I don't like what has happened but I am not going to just throw out this charter either. Please at least stop and think about what your doing here. I urge you to reconsider.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoolzVern on Oct 27, 2014 12:17:17 GMT -6
I fully understand that Jam, and if you, Rostin, Sargas, and Lisunken will allow the integrity of the UC to be subverted by Rostin and Jake then I'm out as I'll be no part of a dishonorable and disgraced organization/group. I have absolutely zero tolerance and respect for those that allow the UC charter to be used as a shield to protect the overtly guilty and shameless and I'll have no part in it. It goes against the spirit of the charter and busting it's spirit and honor makes it worthless to me. Have fun with that guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 27, 2014 12:30:18 GMT -6
Are you being serious Joolz? This is absurd.
My stated goal from the beginning was to make an era of Galactic peace. THAT IS WHAT I AM EFFECTIVELY DOING! I'm not harboring a fugitive, I am using my flag to end a pointless conflict that has grown old and stale.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 27, 2014 12:34:23 GMT -6
Jake can hide behind our flag all he wants. But the minute he breaks a law he will be subject to the same disciplinary procedures as everyone else in New Rome.
Joolz, when I first asked you about Jake this was your initial response...
[ITO] JoolzVern(#2393)
26-Oct-2014 15:27
Re: Jake
"Hmm that's a good question. The more reasonable side of me wants to say sure, but the vengeful side of me says he still has it comin'. I think I'll ask the guys what they think and I'll get back to you."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What the hell happened since then? You were so reasonable and seemingly open minded.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoolzVern on Oct 27, 2014 12:44:21 GMT -6
What happened since? We decided justice has not been served and don't appreciate him trying to weasel out of it without so much as even an apology of any kind. While we're somewhat indifferent to the prospect of attacking him (as for example our lesser players may never manage to get him back) this skirting of justice is wrong and on principle alone ITO will be no part of it.
Then YOU decided to disgrace yourself and UC by taking in what I consider to be a wanted criminal of astro-galaxy for no other reason but to allow him to escape justice.
This is a player who just a few days ago was at war with ITO and everybody else Dadds has flipped out against. This is not to mention the other players not even in our corp that Jake has hit while Dadds preaches about Jam being a pirate etc.
For me to think SPQNR and now the UC of anything but disgraced, fugitive harboring garbage would be unreasonable of me, as it would be for ITO to stay in the UC.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 27, 2014 12:52:37 GMT -6
What? You're being totally irrational right now. Can you not see the change in your demeanor between the message you sent to me just the other day and your attitude on here now?
You can stay mad at Jake if you feel like that's the healthy choice for you and ITO, but you have no reason to attack my character like this... What have I EVER done to you (and don't just say I took in a fugitive, that excuse won't cut it for your lack of civility towards me here today).
|
|
|
|
Post by JoolzVern on Oct 27, 2014 12:56:17 GMT -6
Rostin, you're shielding a scumbag from justice. In doing so you've managed to lose 100% of my respect for you in under 24hrs. You may as well tell yourself it's irrational for people's demeanor to change when you shit on their kitchen table and say "dinner's served". I left it up to the guys, and they left it up to me. For me on principle this is unacceptable. Asking for amnesty is one thing, but gaming the system to ensure it is another.
I care not what you think of Jake, what Jam or anyone else thinks of Jake, or the fact that Dadds may have sent him specifically to have this effect.
I'll not simply ignore past transgressions or be part of a group that allows the UC charter to be used for that purpose.
|
|
Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
|
Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 27, 2014 13:08:15 GMT -6
He said that just to please you. He didn't want to start a big mess. But that seems to be out the window now. In a way you are harboring a fugitive. He has done a lot to make himself our enemy. Actions speak louder then words and he has shown himself to be a devout loyal follower of Dadds. I am willing to let it go with him for a public apology. But I understand where Joolz is coming from. Part of the reason for our first war with IMG was the fact that one of their people prior to joining them declared war on us. He then joined IMG using them as a shield. I approached Dadds about it and he got defensive of it. Said it was in the past and didn't matter. I even offered the apology solution for the guy and asking for him to recant his declaration on us. After much debating we all went to war. This is the last thing I want to see happen this time. I speak from experience that this isn't the way to go about it. I worry the same will happen between your corp and ITO. The UC needs to be preserved.
Joolz, you know I don't condone what is going on. But there is nothing in the charter saying it can't happen. Yes I have lost some Respect for Rostin but in the spirit of the UC, I am sticking wiith the charter. Leaving the UC does more harm then good. I ask that you at least take the time to rethink things.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoolzVern on Oct 27, 2014 13:15:00 GMT -6
ITO will remain true to the conventions and the SPIRIT the UC was intended to have and that is the best we can do.
If things like this stand, the UC becomes a meaningless group of compromises between honor and protecting the guilty or whatever other foolishness comes next on Dadds/Rostin's agenda.
This concludes ITO's business with the UC until the spirit and meaning of the UC is restored.
|
|
Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
|
Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 27, 2014 13:32:26 GMT -6
We will miss you joolz and I wish you would reconsider. When I had the idea of the UC it was for Corps to be able to do what they want with only a few restrictions which is the case. We may not always like someone taking in their enemies. In this case it may cause of to lose some respect for people. But it isn't in any violation of the charter. Fact is Rostin can't see things from our side because he hasn't been there. The war he got involved in between SSS and IMG was more of a personal fued with dadds between Raph and Dadds then anything. After our first war with IMG ended, I thought we could live peacefully. I was willing to give them all another chance. Like Rostin I was optimistic. But we both saw the end result of that one. If he had been betrayed like we were he would likely feel different about Jake. For some reason he see's Jake as an innocent guy who was just following orders. I am sure Jake can put on that act. I thought the same about him when I tried to explain to him what was really going on. It was only after I saw he was blindly listening to Dadds that I began to see he wasn't much better. Maybe even worse since he was willing to follow such a delusional man. It showed how much real integrity he had. In the end though the decision of who Rostin lets join his corp is his business. So I won't intervene. But I still want that public apology. It shows he is admitting he was in the wrong. Which to me is a big step forward and shows perhaps maybe he is trying to change. I need to see that to even consider he is really on the up and up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 27, 2014 13:32:53 GMT -6
If you both see it this way then you are letting Dadds' so-called secret agenda to play out! Can't you see that??? If he really wants the UC to be delegitimized then congrats, you both are agents of the very thing you want to stop
|
|
Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
|
Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 27, 2014 13:36:32 GMT -6
Rostin I am not going to come after him while he is with you. I have told you that. But you must understand I have very good reason for not trusting Jake. An apology is not much to ask for. If he can't admit he was in the wrong then he truly is too far gone to really help. I don't want this to cause problems between us either. If he apologies you can consider the matter dropped by me. But please try to understand where we are coming from. I don't think Joolz should leave. I think he should stick around. But I also understand why he wants to leave over this.
|
|
|
|
Post by sargas on Oct 27, 2014 13:42:11 GMT -6
After lengthy (and heated) discussion, the EoS stance is this:
We support nero in his transformation from warrior to merchant. After all, that is what the EoS charter is about. A disturbing event occured during the Empire's own beginning resulting in a 'Baptism of Fire' because of this precise Corporate Stance.
nero is a friend of mine. He was the only one of Dadds' minions to hunt me successfully (kudos to him for that), but war is war and the past is just that, the past. And, EoS is Allied with SPQRN.
So, this discussion has become moot.
|
|
