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Post by JoolzVern on Oct 2, 2014 11:54:57 GMT -6
Frankly I think that it's better to vote on an 'exemption' to say x activity isn't generally considered to be an 'operation' than to make a narrow definition and every time something is added try to add it and hope we didn't leave a loophole to be exploited. I mean I think it's safe to say that anything that others can see that has a timer and is yours, should be considered an active operation even if it's not yet listed along with coms, alien encounters etc.
So, definitely I agree with Rostin on the "including but not limited to".
In my opinion, if you get there first or if someone is mining there already, and you mine also, that's not interference unless you destroy their mines or something to obstruct their mining. If you mine it out for example then that's friendly competition not interference in my opinion as their mining operation is still under way.
But that's just me and I don't mine much anyway lol. So if everybody else thinks we should consider that a c*ck-block then ok that should be listed as interfering in a mining operation.
I think about the only actions that would be considered operations at this point would be missions and planetary installations and unless you destroy their mines or dump a com etc., their operations are intact and unobstructed.
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Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor 
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
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Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 2, 2014 12:58:47 GMT -6
When defining something you are defining what something is. Not what it isn't. I am willing to go your way on this though provided Sargas agrees. Though I can see someone take advantage of this and if they do i will just sit back and say I told you so.
Rostin I don't mind you watching and giving ideas. Just keep in mind you aren't a part of this yet. SSS wants no part in this. Your leader made it clear and you don't have your own corp yet. If we were already established you wouldn't even be allowed to speak in the meeting room. Though we would let you read what is going on. It is nothing personal. I just think only members of this should really be allowed to speak for discussions having to do with The United Corporations.
On that mining. Any mining on a planet that someone else is mining on can be considered interference. Simply because you might end up what their mining taking resources that would be theirs. Keep in mind it also doesn't deduct from the overall amount there until after you click unload. So say there was 100 left. Both of you are full and you click unload. They won't get anything then. With the mining missions, say they let you set up there to get it but switch one of theirs over to mine that one as well. They are interfering with your operation by mining your amount. Also what if they have the entire planet filled up with mines/harvesters. Then it would be impossible for you to finish your mining mission without interfering with their operation. Just by asking them to move some of them so you could come get it could be considered interference by some. For people like you and me we aren't likely to run into this. But for people like Sargas and other miners out there, it could happen. If we were to define exactly what an operation was and procedures on tough situations like this, then it would save us all a lot of time from pointlessly arguing and bickering. Who knows though how future things could effect current operations or interact with one another.
See what you and I consider an operation is already different. Your missing out on some of what I had defined. Such as crashed ships. Those really aren't even missions. You don't pick it up anywhere. You just find it and do it. Your right it can be easier to say what isn't an operation. Though it can also create more problems in the future since it could come down to people having different opinions on what is and isn't an operation. I'd prefer to have less arguments. When it is already defined as one, no one can argue because we already decided if it is or isnt. When something new is added regardless we will have to discuss if it is going to be one anyways with your idea. Because we have to discuss whether it is exempt or not.
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Post by JoolzVern on Oct 2, 2014 13:17:13 GMT -6
We'd only have to discuss that if it's unclear- I mean I think there's a good chance we could decide what to do without a bunch of bickering once we have the basics down.
And yes crashed ships while being something you 'just do' are one of the things outside missions that would be covered if you're "doing it" because you're um... actively doing something.
And yes, Sargas and lisunken's opinion on the mining is essential.
I think rather than interference I'd say those scenarios are "operations in logistical conflict" with each other (while not directly interfering). If they want such confliction to be considered interference that's fine though.
To that end I think perhaps there should be a clause urging us to message one another or go through our embassies to avoid or mediate such "conflicting operations" that we might not consider to be direct interference.
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Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
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Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 2, 2014 13:34:12 GMT -6
.
I'd prefer to use the embassies but the problem with that is people don't bother to log on and check post at all. We could message them in the game but we really shouldn't have to. This was one of my big issues with the GC and why I actually ended up leaving it. It isn't hard to create a bookmark for this forum. It isn't hard to create a link on your corp board page and slap it on there for your members. I have done both things. I don't expect the members of the corps to log in all the time but the Corp Leaders who want to be a part of this really need to log in at least once every couple days.
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Post by sargas on Oct 11, 2014 19:28:40 GMT -6
sorry for the delay.
mining - I have always been ready and willing to share a planet. lisunken and I have shared many such planets, including a very lucrative chlorine deposit (40 some odd million). I have also shared mining worlds with wayup. The only reason to not share worlds is greed. The only miners I am not willing to share with is IMG (and they can change that with a simple truce).
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Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
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Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 11, 2014 19:34:16 GMT -6
The thing is not everyone would agree to sharing on the mining. So some might consider it as interfering with their operation if you set up without asking. If NHC's leader isn't going to chime in I think we need to get to finalizing everything. We can work on that tomorrow if you guys wish. Also considering NHC's lack of attentiveness here I am not even sure if they should still be included in this anymore. But if you guys still want them in they can be included.
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Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 12, 2014 2:19:29 GMT -6
Given that my suggestions to amend the draft were purely syntax and diction based I am ready to sign the UC into action whenever other people are ready. JJL, can we get an updated version of it? Have any changes actually been made? I sided with Sargas on the wording of the prohibited actions.
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Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
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Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 12, 2014 2:56:50 GMT -6
I will put it together tomorrow. I am a bit sleepy tonight.
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Post by lisunken on Oct 12, 2014 10:45:01 GMT -6
sorry people busy at work and try read all the big post on a cell phone is bad.
Ok back to the mining discuss. If any captain has mining module on planet first have the right way. if any captain wish to mine at that location. It have to request and get an approval from the captain before setting module down. If there are disagreement shall be work out by the both corp.
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Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 12, 2014 13:17:56 GMT -6
I agree with lisunken on this matter
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Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 13, 2014 19:53:26 GMT -6
Let's hurry up and get this shit finalized, whatdya say?
Here is my proposed version of the UC contract
The United Corporations
Rules and Guidelines
1. No Corporations within the The United Corporations will attack anything belonging to another member of The United Corporations.
2. No member of The United Corporations will stack their COM mission(s) on top of another member's COM mission.
2a. No member shall poach another members mission(s) without permission.
3. No member of The United Corporations will intervene in the internal matters of other Corporations.
4. Members of The United Corporations are not required to assist other members of the The United Corporations.
5. Leaders of Corporations belonging to the The United Corporations are required to share the location of public fueling stations with one another.
6. No member of The United Corporations will interfere with, impede, or sell information about another member's operations. Operations include, but are not limited to, mining/harvesting facilities, non-public stations, alien artifact/structure investigations, and other planetary installations not mentioned in the previously stated categories.
6a. Interference is defined as any attack on property, blocking of structure placement in clearly claimed zones, 'stealing' of alien site investigations by claiming ones already owned by another member, claiming resources already queued for collection by another member's mines/collectors, or any other action that could be considered threatening or harmful to a member's corporation or individual assets.
6b. If a member wishes to mine an object already being mined by another member, the member wishing to place new mines/collectors must first receive clear and explicit permission from the original colony's owner and the parties must come to an agreement on which resources belong to whom. This applies to mining deposit SOS missions as well as all normal deposits.
7. Corporations within The United Corporations must retain at least one member who is active in the forums.
Joining Requirements
1. The Corporation must have at least 3 active members.
2. The Corporation must be in the top 10 corps list. Exceptions will be made if a Corporation already belonging to The United Corporations vouches for them.
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Post by lisunken on Oct 14, 2014 8:04:58 GMT -6
Notbad. I see most is cover but ah...
WAR. How is that is structured. If a war is declare to one member by an non member?
Yes the combat time suck but need to be address.
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Post by sargas on Oct 14, 2014 13:26:08 GMT -6
2. No member of The United Corporations will stack their COM mission(s) on top of another member's COM mission.
2a. No member shall poach another members mission(s) without permission.
question regarding:
6b. If a member wishes to mine an object already being mined by another member, the member wishing to place new mines/collectors must first receive clear and explicit permission from the original colony's owner and the parties must come to an agreement on which resources belong to whom.
what happens when a planet is being mined by a member and another member comes along with a new deposit that had been discovered via thw 'treasure' SOS missions. I feel they should share it.
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Post by Rostinius Maximus on Oct 14, 2014 13:52:53 GMT -6
lisunken, that is a tricky issue... Because rule #1 sets a definite prohibition of any acts of war between members.
Sargas, I edited my proposal to include what you have suggested. Is my addition acceptable?
The only issue I have and need resolved is what happens if I find a multi-million deposit on some thing on a planetary body that is already being mined (how is it shared?)
We should discuss the prospect of war between members (as unlikely as it may be to happen). In my opinion, the UC should act as a judicial body to hear evidence and resolve conflicts between only MEMBERS of the UC. So if my corp went to war against Sargas (?)then the UC would get involved to try to mediate the issue. However, if my corp went to war with Raph the UC would stay out of it because it is not between members and that falls in the jurisdiction of rules 3 & 4
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Jam-Jul Lison
UC Advisor
Emperor of The Galactic Empire
Posts: 133
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Post by Jam-Jul Lison on Oct 14, 2014 14:22:43 GMT -6
No members of either corp will go to war with one another if they are a part of the United Corporations. This is just something that shouldn't happen. If it ever would come down to such a thing, the entire UC would get involved. While we may try to mediate it, whoever actually breaks the charter or their pledge first shall be the one that is kicked out of the UC.
As for a non-member. This is already covered.
4. Members of The United Corporations are not required to assist other members of the The United Corporations.
So say a non-member declared war on TGE. I won't expect other members of the UC to come to our aid. You may if you want but it isn't required. This isn;t a close knit organization such as the GC where everyone had to jump in to everyone's aid. Just like if say I declare a player to be on the TGE hit list, it doesn't mean other members of the UC have to hit them.
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